Talk:Radio
I was not jocking about the last question, What is the snake codec frequency?? Thats was a real question. :Oh. It's 141.11... Man, seriously, no-one mentions it, so no-one knows, it's an unimportant detail. --Fantomas 11:42, 1 December 2007 (UTC) In MGS3 it isn't Codec. Anyone want to figure out how the CODEC works in the series, since MGS2 states that the users could somehow communicate without being evasdropped by anyone close by - not to mention the images (The novelization seems to think it involves a watch - thus the classic "Taking a call" stance). :It was probably originally supposed to be a sense of breaking the fourth wall, but I'm guessing that, at least with MGS1 and MGS2, the characters could actually see who they were talking to (a kind of cyber-telepathy, if you will.). This is especially apparent when Liquid, both in the game and the Novelization, said "Snake! Did you like my sunglasses" when they encounter each other near REX. Weedle McHairybug 22:34, February 20, 2010 (UTC) Portable Ops Why are Portable Ops's Radio numbers not listed? I mean, hell, even Brawl's numbers are listed. I remember... 140.85 - Roy Campbell 143.15 - Prisoner Evacuation 145.75 - Para-Medic 148.41 - Sigint 144.73 - Ghost I'm going to go ahead and add these to the article. --ChewyLSB 13:31, 21 July 2009 (UTC) Hm... Okay, when I tried to edit it it looks like I deleted half of the page, haha. I think this might be because of browser issues and the wiki'as RTF editor. Even after I tried to revert it it stayed the same, could someone else please revert it? Sorry for the trouble. --ChewyLSB 13:46, 21 July 2009 (UTC) :No prob, it happens. What browser are you using? I'll go ahead and add the Portable Ops frequencies for you. --Fantomas 16:28, 21 July 2009 (UTC) ::I was using IE6 because I was at work, although right now this looks like the normal editor. The only other thing I would say is that it would be nice to have a screenshot of Portable Ops' radio screen, which normally I would take but I don't have video out cables for my PSP (yet). --ChewyLSB 13:56, 22 July 2009 (UTC) ::Good point, I'll get on that. --Fantomas 16:05, 22 July 2009 (UTC) :::The bug was probably due to the .--Richardtalk 17:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC) 48273 That's the password in MGS4 you have to enter in Otacon's old lab. Maybe that number got a reason? 48 to 73 ? Gray Fox is 140.48 and Para-Medic is 140.73 get it? very far fetched but... maybe? :No. One reason: What would be the point? --Fantomas 01:06, January 18, 2010 (UTC) :: Hmm I was wondering why there are this alternative passwords (to get 100.000DP or the two Policenauts iPod songs) and why those numbers are so random, who are you supposed to get them out? Then I thought, maybe the Policenauts passwords have something to do with the game iteself?... anyway, because of that wonderingfest I started checking the codec-frequencies again because of the 48273... and by coincidence there are "fragments" of the frequencies of Gray Fox and Para-Medic, since they two got something in common (para-medic "created" gray fox and got killed by him) and it was also the same room where snake fought gray fox in MGS1 hmm... I don't know, just lateral thinking ;) ¿Codec nanomachines in MGS1? According to Natasha's book, "The Unofficial Truth to Shadow Moses", Snake had a "cochlear-implant radio". Here is the details: "He (Snake) was taken to the terrorist command post still unconscious, stripped of all his gear. However, his cochlear-implant radio passed unnoticed, and we could hear the terrorists conferring about the incapacitated operative." This proves that MGS1's Codec in not based on nanomachines. - Marcaurelix :I agree. There's also the fact that in the Tanker Chapter, Philanthropy originally planned that Snake would transmit the RAY photos to Otacon via Codec, as well as Snake transmitting a photo of Gurlukovich from his digital camera to Otacon to ID him. That would not have been possible if Snake's Codec was nanomachine based. There were also references to the Codec in-game for MGS1 that would not have made any sense if they were simply nanomachine based. For example, Meryl made a reference to her Codec being "broken" when explaining why she got cut off when meeting up with Snake in the bathroom, as well as Naomi mentioning that she "was using a spare Codec" when contacting Snake shortly after Snake got the red key. How can the Codec get broken or even come with a spare Codec if it was primarily nanomachine based? I think there was also at least a limited form of visuals for the Codec as well, though I might be wrong. For one thing, in Nastasha's book: :Liquid had reached Snake's side, and to our surprise, picked up Snake's limp body. He started to carry Snake, heading in the direction of Metal Gear's prone form. :(Page 254) We listened, helpless, in a tense silence. It was Snake's battle; there was next to nothing we could do. Liquid had now climbed onto Metal Gear's back, where he carelessly laid Snake down. He apparently planned to simply wait for his adversary to regain consciousness. :The passage here would indicate that they were actually seeing what was going on, meaning there was, at least to a limited extent, a visual output system for the command crew to see what the Operative is in. For one thing, if it was purely audio, I doubt that they'd know that he was climbing up REX's back, or that Liquid was picking Snake up. Heck, they'd probably not actually know what direction he was heading. All they could hear would be footsteps. For all they know, he could have been walking away from REX. Then there are some dialogue from characters via the Codec that indicate that they do actually see each other via Codec (eg, Snake's statement that he didn't expect Mei Ling, the developer of the Codec and Soliton Radar to be cute.). Weedle McHairybug 16:46, February 13, 2011 (UTC) The Codec is an AUDIO device! The Codec is an AUDIO device in MGS and MGS2. It's not a visual device. You can clearly see Snake and Raiden touch their ears when they start talking. There is no camera or robot with a monitor in those two games. In the Darkness of Shadow Moses also makes it clear that it's a radio only device. ""You should be hearing from him soon. You're clear on how to use the radio?" I nodded assent." "The voice that responded over the radio was, above all things, calm. Here was a man operating alone out of a deeply hostile territory, and I could sense nothing resembling tension or impatience in his tone. Instead, it was as level and unruffled as someone answering a routine telephone call at their office desk. Impressed, I continued on." "We listened, helpless, in a tense silence." "Liquid's dying scream tore through the speakers." "From the voices involved in the conversation, we confirmed the presence of Sniper Wolf, Revolver Ocelot, and the leader of this uprising himself, Liquid Snake." "Snake's ragged gasps echoed from the radio in the silence of the control room. The heart rate and other physiological data transmitted by his nanomachines graphically demonstrated the extent of his suffering. All we could do was listen and wait." Otness's Mei Ling suggestion is ridiculous. Why would he say "who's that cute woman" when he wasn't even properly introduced? You can clearly see him look angry at first until Campbell reveals who she is. The only thing that suggests a visual screen is the "sunglasses" line but that's probably a fourth wall conversation like the "back of the CD case" line from Baker. -- 13:00, April 5, 2011 (UTC) There was also the reference from Solid Snake in regards to Mei Ling's Codec that if it weren't for it, they "wouldn't have the conversation the way they are having now." If it was simply an audio device, I really can't tell how that would be significantly different to warrant Snake even mentioning it. I mean, the only difference is that its not two way, allowing more than one person to communicate, which is not that significant to warrant Snake's compliment. The only other thing that I could imagine being anything remotely different is the visuals. Besides, if it were purely audio, then how would they even know that Liquid carried him on top of REX? I mean, if knocked someone out while they were communicating on the radio, they wouldn't hear me knocking them out, or snatching it away, so I'm pretty sure that, had the Codec device purely been audio only, it would have similar consequences, not allowing a person to actually know what happened. I know if I were in her situation, I certainly wouldn't be able to say this in such a manner as she did, since I can't say exactly what happened since I can't actually see what's going on. Weedle McHairybug 13:30, April 5, 2011 (UTC) Did you even read what I put? Nastasha NEVER saw them. She only heard them. How you would hear them is irrelevant. Nastasha heard them. She never saw them. And I don't even remember that "convervation" thing being in the game. It might have only been in the novel. But either way, Mei Ling CREATED the Codec. Of course they wouldn't be able to talk if it wasn't for it. 13:44, April 5, 2011 (UTC) :I did read it, but I still cannot fathom how she could make statements like that if she could only hear what was going on. And I know the conversation was at the very least in the data texts of Metal Gear Solid. I'll even post it. :0x6a8d998: Snake, there's an old Chinese saying: A scholar who cherishes the love of comfort is not fit to be deemed a scholar. :0x6a8da24: Einstein said it another way. He said that only a life lived for others is worth living. :0x6a8da90: That's why I entered MIT instead of Princeton or Vassar like my friends. :0x6a8daec: I wanted to do applied physics, not just theoretical stuff. I wanted to make things for people. :0x6a8db5c: The Soliton Radar System or the Codec System...I just wanted to make something that would be useful for people. :0x6a8dbdc: I think that it was the same for Dr. Emmerich too. :0x6a8dc20: But he was used like a tool...used to make a horrible killing machine. :0x6a8dc78: Maybe it would be better if engineers like us just stopped making things... I don't know. :0x6b0f0b8: No, you're wrong. There's at least one person whose life has gotten better as a result of your inventions. Me. :0x6b0f138: Huh? :0x6b0f150: Without the Codec, I wouldn't be able to talk to you like this. :Just for insurance, here's the link: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197909-metal-gear-solid/faqs/15129. And the reason why I get irritated whenever people try to claim that he's only saying it is because she invented it is because it actually sounds like nothing less than an excuse. Anyways, the problem is that, even if she didn't invent the Codec in this mission, they still would communicate via radios, so trying to even claim that this is because of the Codec makes absolutely no sense to me if it is no different than any audio device. The only thing that could even come close to matching up with something like that is video conference ability, since that is a pretty recent invention, and certainly something different than a typical audio device. Now, if you, the game, or anything else can give me something that makes it clear that its different than any audio device that exists, then I'm perfectly willing to believe it, even if it isn't the Video option as long as it at least makes sense. Other than that, the only real explaination as to how that would be a life changing event is if Snake never used a military radio/transciever in his entire life, and even that has holes in it because Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake utilized transcievers, even if they weren't Codecs, during Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land, and I'm pretty sure the Green Berets used radios as well for receiving commands from HQ. Weedle McHairybug 13:57, April 5, 2011 (UTC) :My God, you are completely obtuse. Not everything in the text dump made it to the game. Snake never says "without the Codec, I wouldn't be able to talk to you like this." after she finishes talking about how engineers should stop making things. In fact, he didn't even say anything at all. Once the player saves the game, all we see is "....". This is why people like you shouldn't edit wikis. You post false information because you never played the games. -- 14:23, April 5, 2011 (UTC) :In fact, let's ask Gorman. Gorman, you played MGS. Did you see Snake reply to Mei Ling's conversation about engineers? I know I didn't. All I saw was "...".-- 14:27, April 5, 2011 (UTC) ::Now that you mention it, I did find it strange that the gameplay video that had that codec conversation didn't seem to mention it at all. I thought it might have been some sort of bug. In any case, I'll probably add in a footnote stating this. Maybe they removed it because it seemed at odds with the fact that radios exist, or the fact that Snake used similar transcievers before Shadow Moses? Also, I have gotten The Twin Snakes so I might as well use it to get the codec calls. In fact, that's the reason why I got it in the first place. Weedle McHairybug 14:27, April 5, 2011 (UTC) ::UGH, God give me strength. Dealing with stupidity is a daily struggle. -- 14:31, April 5, 2011 (UTC) The "cute" remark could either be a fourth wall break, or simply Snake commenting on the sound of her voice. Take your pick. She also winks at Snake/the player in the same conversation. As for the conversation about engineers, it's true that that last line of dialogue didn't occur when contacting her in Emmerich's lab. However, whether it occurs elsewhere, I couldn't say, as dialogue often switches around depending on the situation, in all of the games. Even if Snake did say it, there's no real indication that he is referring to visual communication. Nor is there a real indication that Nastasha witnessed Snake's actions by sight; it isn't impossible that trained intelligence operatives could have gathered what was happening via sound; they may even have had access to the Soliton Radar display, but that's speculating. This situation is identical to Otacon hearing Psycho Mantis's mind control music through Snake's Codec, or Meryl and Snake being interrupted by its beeping during a James Bond-esque moment; only Snake is capable of hearing the Codec's receiver, and its played for laughs. Approach an issue from all angles. --Bluerock 22:11, April 5, 2011 (UTC) :Well, sorry. Sometimes it's hard to tell when characters break the fourth wall. Psycho Mantis controls people with music. Otacon heard Psycho Mantis' music. Meryl heard Snake's codec ring even though Campbell said no one but Snake would be able to hear it. 12:33, April 6, 2011 (UTC) Exactly my point. Therefore, you could forgive one for thinking the Codec might have had some visual display, not seen in-game. Wouldn't matter if you'd played the game or not. --Bluerock 15:18, April 6, 2011 (UTC) :Okay, I've just started playing The Twin Snakes due to not having a lot of school work besides studying for finals, and I noticed quite a few things relating to the Codec. ::1. In the part about the Mei Ling intro, Solid Snake in no way prior to being formally introduced, remarks that she was cute. In fact, his exact response to Mei Ling when hearing her the first time before being properly introduced by Campbell is "Who's that?". ::2. When "Master Miller" (Liquid Snake in disguise) contacts Snake with his suspicions of Naomi being a spy for the terrorists, and wants to tell Snake in private, both he and Snake explicitly refer to what they used as the Codec as a "monitor." I also looked up the word "monitor", and there was no reference to any audio monitors. In fact, the word "monitor" would imply that they were using visuals. I also doubt it is a fourth wall break, either, considering how it was not in reference to gameplay (they were talking about turning off the monitor so Campbell won't listen in on their conversation), and plus, they didn't even do it that effectively in either case. (Simply put, they probably would have the TV briefly "turn off", and then turn back on as Snake tells Miller that he turned it off for it to be an effective use of a non-verbal fourth wall break.). :Just reporting what I've found out. Weedle McHairybug 02:45, April 15, 2011 (UTC) :Edit: Okay, there is one use of the word monitor as an audio device (Studio Monitors), but I'm not certain if that's what it's referring to. For one thing, the devices in question are about the size of a tower computer, which is far too big especially in comparison to the Codec. The device would have been more likely to have been onboard the U.S.S. Discovery, if anywhere. Plus, even with that, it is unlikely that he could just "turn it off" from where he is at, since the Codec would not work in that fashion. Weedle McHairybug 02:53, April 15, 2011 (UTC) A monitor can be any device used to record data, be it audio or video. The same scene occurs in "In the Darkness..." but Snake switching it off made no difference, since Ames and co were still able to listen in. --Bluerock 09:26, April 15, 2011 (UTC) :Strange, the disambiguation section of Wikipedia seemed to list mostly visual uses of monitors, and in fact, the only audio use of the word "monitor" was studio monitors, which seem to be used more for entertainment, but if it actually does mean both interchangibly, fine, so be it. In any case, at least we (or at least I) know that Snake certainly didn't say Mei Ling was cute prior to Campbell formally introducing them (at least in The Twin Snakes. I don't know if that was also in the PSX original or if that was one of the things changed between the original and the remake.). Weedle McHairybug 12:14, April 15, 2011 (UTC) :Ugh, you are dense. The "monitor" is a device that allowed Campbell and Ames to be able to hear Snake while he talked to other people on the codec. Basically, it's what cops and federal agents use to eavesdrop on suspects while they talk on the phone. Prison officials also use it when inmates talk to family on the phone. And the "cute" comment doesn't make the codec a video device. Snake could simply be saying that Mei Ling is cute due to her voice and personality. The codec did not become a video device until MGS4. I can't begin to comprehend why you can't get that through your head. I assume you've seen videos of MGS3. Sigint still managed to "see" Naked Snake while inside a cardboard box even though he only had a radio. Does that mean the radio has a video camera? -- 13:31, April 15, 2011 (UTC) Not only do I have to deal with your ignorance, I have to deal with that Gorman guy believing that Hunter was being monitored by Ocelot while in a prison fool. God give me strength. -- 13:31, April 15, 2011 (UTC) :Look, the only thing I could find that matched an audio usage of the word "monitor" was a Studio Monitor, and that was mostly used for entertainment from what I've read about it on Wikipedia. And considering the fact that the article itself mentioned that it was far more than just a simple two-way radio, that really isn't a good example. Besides which, unlike the Codec in MGS1 and MGS2, the radio in Metal Gear Solid 3 was explicitly stated to not allow the characters to see what is going on (Snake remarks that Para-Medic can't actually see what is going on below when she was about to verbally berate him in regards to allegedly considering eating something). As for the "cute" comment, as I said before, you can't actually assume someone sounding like that is automatically "cute". I speak from personal experience, since I factor in any possibilites about what the person can look or act like, even those not likely, if I am exposed to the sound of a person alone. That means that, if I were in Snake's position, although I might think that she sounds cute, I cannot say she is cute until I could verify it visually, since I could just as easily think that she may look completely homely or not cute as I can think she is cute. The choice of words makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I mean, if they wanted him to think she was cute just by her voice, they could have easily just worded/translated it for him to say "Nothing...I just didn't expect a world-class designer of military technology to sound so...cute." If written/translated that way, it is 100% evident, and undeniable, that Snake was indeed referring to her voice. It's not so evident with the way it is worded in-game currently. Try blindfolding yourself and keeping yourself from moving and having to listen to someone you don't even know, and never even seen, I'll bet you can't deduce what they physically look like just by their voice alone. I know I can't, and I am fairly certain that most humans don't have that. But, whatever, if it doesn't mention it, we don't mention it. It's never actually confirmed either way that the Codec is audio only or visual and audio (If it were confirmed to be audio only, they'd explicitly state that they can't see what's going on in Snake's area or actually see Snake, similar to the radio in MGS3.). Plus, technically the visuals for the "Codec" were not actually the Codec but the Metal Gear Mk II. Weedle McHairybug 13:57, April 15, 2011 (UTC) :Yes, but Para-Medic manages to see Snake wear the Raikov mask and the Crocodile Cap in two other conversations. Anyway, the point is we never see Snake wear a watch or camera in MGS. He touches his ear when talking to someone. Raiden does wear a watch in MGS2 but the game doesn't say whether that's the codec. The only thing that suggests visual monitoring in MGS is Liquid mentioning sunglasses. As for the monitor, Snake says no one else can "hear" us instead of saying no one else can "see" us. -- 18:22, April 15, 2011 (UTC) ::Actually, I just remembered something else. In the same scene where Liquid "unveils" himself on the Codec, Roy Campbell was apparently going to mention who the person was who Snake was talking to before "Miller" finished it for him. Even disregarding the whole fourth-wall breaking part of it, the whole thing didn't make too much sense in regards to how Roy Campbell, going by his statements, figured out that it was Liquid just by audio. For one thing, there were still quite a few soldiers whose brainwashing/"morale boost" was not completely eliminated by the time the PAL keys were inputted and Roy Campbell and Mei Ling deduced this. Going by the fact that Johnny Sasaki, who isn't even an elite, was using a Codec, it's very likely the other Next-Generation Special Forces were using them as well. Then we have the members of FOXHOUND, who were all implied to utilize the Codec. Yes, by that time, Vulcan Raven, Decoy Octopus, Psycho Mantis, and Sniper Wolf were dead, but even with that, that still leaves Ocelot and Liquid remaining. In other words, literally anyone could have been the one who was manipulating Snake by posing as Miller. At best, they could only state that Snake and the others were being duped by an imposter, but the way Roy Campbell was talking made it seem as though they deduced the identity of the imposter. Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm pretty sure that it would not work as effectively as that with only audio. Weedle McHairybug 23:05, April 17, 2011 (UTC) ::Campbell may have simply recognized that it was Liquid's voice, after finding out that the real Miller was dead. He doesn't finish his statement, so he may well have said, "You've been talking to the terrorists/one of the terrorists. The Codec is simply a high-tech radio system; except for the cochlear implant that Snake used, it is not really portrayed as being radically different to normal radio communication. --Bluerock 09:56, April 18, 2011 (UTC) :::Sorry for bringing this topic back from the dead again, but I noticed something that is an apparent contradiction: In Nastasha's book, shortly after Liquid explained the nature of their birth, she stated that Liquid smiled at the stunned Snake. If the Codec was simply an audio device, not even possessing visuals, how could she know that Liquid was smilingat all? Last I checked, facial expressions aren't audio, but rather visual. Weedle McHairybug 23:05, October 18, 2011 (UTC) ::::It is a contradiction, yes. You could add this to the list in "Behind the scenes." I supposed she could have envisioned him smiling, based on his attitude and speech. There is still much evidence that shows the Codec is exclusively used for audio communication, despite these minor issues in presentation. --Bluerock 08:11, October 19, 2011 (UTC) ::::::Hm... okay. Doesn't make too much sense, but I guess that explaination would have to do, really. Weedle McHairybug 11:45, October 19, 2011 (UTC) :I'm not really surprised that some contradictions might crop up in that book; after all, they are trying to give a plot synopsis of the previous game, from the POV of a character who wasn't even present on the island. --Bluerock 12:10, October 19, 2011 (UTC) Splitting up the article. Hi. I think we might need to split up the article. It's long enough as it is, and besides which, we're also covering stuff relating to the radio rather than specifically the Codec. I admit I was guilty of adding some of those things in myself, but I think we may need to split up the articles for one pertaining to the Codec, and another pertaining to the radio. Weedle McHairybug 20:57, August 28, 2011 (UTC) :I think it would make more sense to maintain the article and have it titled "Radio" instead. "Codec" can still redirect here since it is a type of radio communication. --Bluerock 22:04, August 28, 2011 (UTC) ::I guess that works, although we're still going to need to create a section relating to the radio and a section relating to the Codec, seeing how they are different. Weedle McHairybug 22:06, August 28, 2011 (UTC) :::True, but remember that the Codec is a radio system itself, so we shouldn't speak of them as different "devices." Just need to mention the different technologies involved and how they operate (headsets, cochlear implants, nanomachines, etc.) --Bluerock 22:19, August 28, 2011 (UTC) ::::Okay. That might work. Weedle McHairybug 22:27, August 28, 2011 (UTC) :::::Just one last question. Where should we place the radios used by Naked Snake as well as by the KGB guards/GRU soldiers/Gurlukovich mercenaries, and non-handheld radios such as the ones at San Hieronymo as well as the radio EVA carries around to communicate with the Chinese Government? I'm asking because they certainly don't fit with the current selections. Weedle McHairybug 17:43, August 29, 2011 (UTC) ::::::Hi. I pretty much added in the radio EVA used, though I had to make a new section relating to it, and I still don't know whether it even fits with the overall section. I still need to know where I should place the radio used by Naked Snake and KGB/GRU/Gurlukovich Mercenaries, and probably more importantly what exactly is the radio type used (by "radio type", I of course mean something along the lines of the AN-PRC-152, as in the product number or name of the radio). Weedle McHairybug 11:45, October 19, 2011 (UTC) EVA's vaccuum radio. Hi. We might need pictures of EVA's vaccuum radio, especially seeing how it's never actually seen in gameplay and thus I can't take pictures with it on my in-game camera. Weedle McHairybug 03:15, June 24, 2012 (UTC) :Done. --Bluerock 12:01, June 24, 2012 (UTC) ::Thanks. Weedle McHairybug 12:16, June 24, 2012 (UTC) Codec is a real-life term Has anyone from Kojima and co.'s side ever bothered explaining how the Metalgearverse's Codec is related to the real-life codec ? MarqFJA (talk) 17:16, January 22, 2013 (UTC) :I asked Yoji Shinkawa via the Metal Gear Solid Facebook page, so he'll probably respond when his 25th anniversary surprise is unveiled. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 17:31, January 22, 2013 (UTC)